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	<title>Comments on: #72: Palin required rape victims to pay for their own rape kits.</title>
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	<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/</link>
	<description>Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.</description>
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		<title>By: more rape kits &#171; Pigs with Lipstick</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1781</link>
		<dc:creator>more rape kits &#171; Pigs with Lipstick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 04:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1781</guid>
		<description>[...] union- my first letter to the editor! :o) Anyway, he comes back today FINALLY with this article: Palin Myths . Which pissed me off (surprise, surprised). So here&#8217;s my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] union- my first letter to the editor! :o) Anyway, he comes back today FINALLY with this article: Palin Myths . Which pissed me off (surprise, surprised). So here&#8217;s my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Illinois rape victims billed for kits? &#171; Fireweednectar&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1655</link>
		<dc:creator>Illinois rape victims billed for kits? &#171; Fireweednectar&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1655</guid>
		<description>[...] In reality, and had any journalist in the MSM outlets bothered to do their job instead of working for the Obama campaign 24/7, there was a state law forbidding charging victims of rape for their rape kits since 2000. As for where it all came from, the chief of Police( chief of police, not Palin) in Wasilla wanted to have the Insurance companies(Insurance companies, not the victims) to pay for them, with the intention of billing it ultimately to the rapists eventually. However, there isn&#8217;t a single piece of record that shows that a single victim&#8217;s insurance was ever billed for it. If this practice still seems creepy or exclusive to macho, rough-and-tumble Alaska, well, it happens to be the practice in other states, too, like North Carolina (until recently) and … Illinois. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In reality, and had any journalist in the MSM outlets bothered to do their job instead of working for the Obama campaign 24/7, there was a state law forbidding charging victims of rape for their rape kits since 2000. As for where it all came from, the chief of Police( chief of police, not Palin) in Wasilla wanted to have the Insurance companies(Insurance companies, not the victims) to pay for them, with the intention of billing it ultimately to the rapists eventually. However, there isn&#8217;t a single piece of record that shows that a single victim&#8217;s insurance was ever billed for it. If this practice still seems creepy or exclusive to macho, rough-and-tumble Alaska, well, it happens to be the practice in other states, too, like North Carolina (until recently) and … Illinois. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Wasilla Project releases a vid about the rape kits - Gossip Rocks Forum</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1618</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wasilla Project releases a vid about the rape kits - Gossip Rocks Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1618</guid>
		<description>[...]  Unfortunately, all this piece does is help perpetuate the myth. Thankfully, in addition to the blog posts I linked to in my first post about this, Jim Geraghty at the National Review Online has done [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Unfortunately, all this piece does is help perpetuate the myth. Thankfully, in addition to the blog posts I linked to in my first post about this, Jim Geraghty at the National Review Online has done [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1557</guid>
		<description>Sheli, I&#039;m sorry you took it that way.  But logically, you presented a straw man: if I say &quot;I don&#039;t know of evidence for X&quot; without saying that X is absolutely not true, and you say &quot;so you admit X&quot;, that&#039;s a straw man.  Who, of course, is the one missing from the list including Lion and Tin Man.

I could, I suppose, said &quot;that is a fallacious argument Sheli; it&#039;s called a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;straw man&lt;/a&gt;.  Since I used to teach logic, I don&#039;t think you should use a straw man argument.&quot;

But yeah, I would imagine that if that degree of teasing is going to make you too angry to continue, then I suspect you won&#039;t be happy here long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheli, I&#8217;m sorry you took it that way.  But logically, you presented a straw man: if I say &#8220;I don&#8217;t know of evidence for X&#8221; without saying that X is absolutely not true, and you say &#8220;so you admit X&#8221;, that&#8217;s a straw man.  Who, of course, is the one missing from the list including Lion and Tin Man.</p>
<p>I could, I suppose, said &#8220;that is a fallacious argument Sheli; it&#8217;s called a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man" rel="nofollow">straw man</a>.  Since I used to teach logic, I don&#8217;t think you should use a straw man argument.&#8221;</p>
<p>But yeah, I would imagine that if that degree of teasing is going to make you too angry to continue, then I suspect you won&#8217;t be happy here long term.</p>
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		<title>By: scrumptious</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator>scrumptious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1554</guid>
		<description>You know what, I think I&#039;m done here.

I originally sensed an attitude of genuine interest in getting to the facts of the matter, at least on your part, Charlie.

I think I may have been wrong.

You take care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what, I think I&#8217;m done here.</p>
<p>I originally sensed an attitude of genuine interest in getting to the facts of the matter, at least on your part, Charlie.</p>
<p>I think I may have been wrong.</p>
<p>You take care.</p>
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		<title>By: scrumptious</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator>scrumptious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1553</guid>
		<description>Sorry Voxitar, either a police agency picks up the hospital bill or it doesn&#039;t.  We know that Irl Stamberg&#039;s police department did pick up the bill.  We know that Fallon&#039;s police department, unlike almost every police department in the state, didn&#039;t.

Parse it however you want, but them&#039;s the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Voxitar, either a police agency picks up the hospital bill or it doesn&#8217;t.  We know that Irl Stamberg&#8217;s police department did pick up the bill.  We know that Fallon&#8217;s police department, unlike almost every police department in the state, didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Parse it however you want, but them&#8217;s the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: scrumptious</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>scrumptious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>Charlie -

Wait a minute.  

In #50 I asked if you were claiming that the hospital did not bill the insurance companies of victims in Wasilla prior to the bill’s passage.

In #51 you replied: &quot;I’m saying that the connection to Palin is a lot stronger in the rumors than in any evidence I’ve seen presented.&quot;

Which implied to me at least that no, you were not claiming that the hospital did not bill the insurance companies of victims in Wasilla prior to the bill’s passage.  Which means of course that the city or police department did NOT pick up the bill.

Now you seem to deny that. 

I&#039;ll try not to insult you if you will refrain from insulting me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie -</p>
<p>Wait a minute.  </p>
<p>In #50 I asked if you were claiming that the hospital did not bill the insurance companies of victims in Wasilla prior to the bill’s passage.</p>
<p>In #51 you replied: &#8220;I’m saying that the connection to Palin is a lot stronger in the rumors than in any evidence I’ve seen presented.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which implied to me at least that no, you were not claiming that the hospital did not bill the insurance companies of victims in Wasilla prior to the bill’s passage.  Which means of course that the city or police department did NOT pick up the bill.</p>
<p>Now you seem to deny that. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try not to insult you if you will refrain from insulting me.</p>
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		<title>By: voxitar</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>voxitar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>&quot;You agree that until the Croft bill was passed, it was the policy of the City of Wasilla/the Wasilla police department not to pick up the bill for the rape exams, but to allow hospitals to bill victims through their insurance carriers, correct?&quot;

Scrumptious, the point is that based on committee testimony, as noted by Charlie and transcribed here and elsewhere, it appears there never was an actual &quot;policy&quot; by the Wasilla PD with respect to rape kits.  When a rape victim was taken to Valley Hospital by the Wasilla PD, the HOSPITAL then decided to charge the victim WITHOUT involving the Police, the town of Wasilla, or Mayor Palin.  I&#039;m not sure how you can make the stretch that a private Hospital&#039;s policies are also the local mayor&#039;s policies....or the local Police Department&#039;s policies.  

To NOT believe this is the way things transpired is to disbelieve actual facts in evidence, i.e. the transcribed testimony, whereby victim advocates stated the HOSPITALS were charging the victims...they could cite NO instances of the City of Wasilla PD (or any other PD) billing victims for rape kits, which, I might add, directly contradicts what are clearly now known to be partisan, untrue (read: LIE) comments by Croft AFTER Palin was nominated for VEEP.

So, to answer your question, it does appear it was the policy of the HOSPITAL to charge rape victims for rape kits. It doesn&#039;t appear that there was a policy in the Wasilla PD with respect to rape victims paying for their own rape kits unless new documents emerge to suggest otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You agree that until the Croft bill was passed, it was the policy of the City of Wasilla/the Wasilla police department not to pick up the bill for the rape exams, but to allow hospitals to bill victims through their insurance carriers, correct?&#8221;</p>
<p>Scrumptious, the point is that based on committee testimony, as noted by Charlie and transcribed here and elsewhere, it appears there never was an actual &#8220;policy&#8221; by the Wasilla PD with respect to rape kits.  When a rape victim was taken to Valley Hospital by the Wasilla PD, the HOSPITAL then decided to charge the victim WITHOUT involving the Police, the town of Wasilla, or Mayor Palin.  I&#8217;m not sure how you can make the stretch that a private Hospital&#8217;s policies are also the local mayor&#8217;s policies&#8230;.or the local Police Department&#8217;s policies.  </p>
<p>To NOT believe this is the way things transpired is to disbelieve actual facts in evidence, i.e. the transcribed testimony, whereby victim advocates stated the HOSPITALS were charging the victims&#8230;they could cite NO instances of the City of Wasilla PD (or any other PD) billing victims for rape kits, which, I might add, directly contradicts what are clearly now known to be partisan, untrue (read: LIE) comments by Croft AFTER Palin was nominated for VEEP.</p>
<p>So, to answer your question, it does appear it was the policy of the HOSPITAL to charge rape victims for rape kits. It doesn&#8217;t appear that there was a policy in the Wasilla PD with respect to rape victims paying for their own rape kits unless new documents emerge to suggest otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Debunking the Palin Rape-kit Story &#171; Heroes for Hillary</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>Debunking the Palin Rape-kit Story &#171; Heroes for Hillary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>[...] all this piece does is help perpetuate the myth. Thankfully, in addition to the blog posts I linked to in my first post about this, Jim Geraghty at the National Review Online has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all this piece does is help perpetuate the myth. Thankfully, in addition to the blog posts I linked to in my first post about this, Jim Geraghty at the National Review Online has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/23/72-palin-required-rape-victims-to-pay-for-their-own-rape-kits/comment-page-2/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/?p=859#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>Nice try, but no.  Bring Lion and Tin Man next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice try, but no.  Bring Lion and Tin Man next time.</p>
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